rebhershy ([info]rebhershy) wrote in [info]kabbalah_101,

Madness, part IV.

So, why all this talk of madness?

Because some of the greatest mystics and kabbalists went mad, we want to examine and identify the reasons for that madness if we can. Not only so that we can avoid madness if at all possible, but more importantly, because it may tell us something fundamental about kabbalah and the search for meaning. As an aside, avoiding madness is not so absolutely, fundamentally, indisputably our first priority, is it? Is it? For me, personally, the idea of worshiping God, or worship per se, is so alluring precisely because it promises a transcendent madness, a melting of the trembling, rigid skeleton of self, into the shattering, fluid music of Other, to become a silence. To know and be known.

We're looking at Ben Zoma's madness because the sages of the Talmud who wrote and taught the classic kabbalah texts did their best to tell us, across the milenia, what went wrong with him. They did it in code with their cryptic questions: May you castrate a dog, and what about a virgin-mother to a high priest?

The way modern kabbalists understand these questions, it was one of two possibilities which first presented itself. Listen carefully. Either: a) you go mad as an initiate if you think yourself better than...

Better than what?

Than anything. That's why they asked him the question about castrating the dog. They wanted to know if Ben Zoma could mock a creature, any creature? Because if you can think yourself better than a dog you're a danger to yourself in the study, practise and exploration of these mysteries. Be warned.

Either a) or b) you go mad as an initiate if you think of yourself as less than...

Less than what?

Than the high priest. They wanted to know if Ben Zoma could revere and value anybody above and beyond himself? If you can think of yourself as less than anyone on this planet you're a danger to yourself in the study, practise and exploration of these mysteries. Be warned.

Ben Zoma's madness was neither of these, so it had to be deeper, more fundamental, more primal.

R. Joshua asked Ben Zoma the defining question.

This is how the Talmud (Hagiga 15a) records the event. R. Joshua b. Hanania was stood on a promontory of the Temple Mount when he was seen by ben Zoma who did not stand up in his presence.

"Hither whence and whither hence, Ben Zoma?" asked R. Joshua.

"I was having a vision, peering between the waters above and the waters below. There is hardly any distance between them, a mere three fingers breadth. As it is written, (Genesis 1:2) And the Spirit of God hovers over the face of the waters. Like a dove fluttering over her offspring without touching."

R. Joshua announced to his students, "Ben Zoma is still outside."

OK, now, [info]kabbalah_101 readers, all 200 or so of you. We've been studying this now for more than three years, I've dropped a heavy bunch of hints and clues up to now. What was it Ben Zoma said that alerted R. Joshua to his incipient madness?

Try for an answer even if you're not sure of it. Suggest it. Take a risk, write it down and post it as a comment. There will be a prize for all good, intelligent, creative and satisfying answers even if they are not the "right" answer.

How did R. Joshua know Ben Zoma was still mad just from listening to his description of the space between the waters above and the waters below?

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  • 9 comments

[info]ex_greymaide85

September 6 2006, 15:06:54 UTC 5 years ago

above. . .below. . .distance. . .without touching

I hear these words and I know I worry immediately for the person who speaks that way. There's no reconciliation. He's lost in the space between, can't get closer than three fingers width to GOD. He's still outside.

[info]rebhershy

September 6 2006, 15:58:18 UTC 5 years ago

absolutely...

[info]chanina

September 7 2006, 10:16:00 UTC 5 years ago

There's a kind of insanity about Jewish law, which insists on operating only in this world, only for the living, and has nothing to say about where we came from or where we're going. To be precise, the law only wants to know about us from the 40th day after our conception to the moment we close our eyes. Everything else is open to speculation.

No one really feels or behaves this way, except for a few staunch literalist litvaks. It is not a good place to be, only a good place to consider.

It's the dwelling place of Ben Zoma.

In the famous debate between him and the sages in the Hagada, Ben Zoma says the the verse in the Shma referring to "all the days of your life" has a redundant word, All, and it is there to teach us that we must also say Shma at night.

The sages' take on the same redundancy is that it teaches us the Shma holds value in this world as well as in the next.

The ruling we abide by is, surprisingly, according to Ben Zoma, because, let's face it, Jewish law has nothing to say about the next world. But we also pity Ben Zoma who cannot release himself from the strict environment of the law. He remains "outside" the normal course of the human psyche, opting, instead of "Be here now" for "Be here always."

[info]lilitusama

September 7 2006, 17:38:02 UTC 5 years ago

The three fingers' breadth?

The vision seems quite metaphysical, and yet he used his own physicality to describe it so exactly.

I don't find having such a vision in itself particularly mad.. but how does one so simply sum up the space between waters using that kind of terminology?

If they were so close together and he was peering between them using his eyes, then part of him would have to be in the waters above and part in the waters below.. and he would be existing simultaneously on three different planes.

I am almost certainly way off-base.

[info]rebhershy

September 13 2006, 18:19:56 UTC 5 years ago

Where was he?

Yeah, great question. I'd never thought of that way of phrasing it.

HHhhhmmmmnnnnnnnnn

[info]puddysma

September 13 2006, 16:59:52 UTC 5 years ago

"...As an aside, avoiding madness is not so absolutely, fundamentally, indisputably our first priority, is it? Is it? For me, personally, the idea of worshiping God, or worship per se, is so alluring precisely because it promises a transcendent madness, a melting of the trembling, rigid skeleton of self, into the shattering, fluid music of Other, to become a silence. To know and be known."

Your aside is so very profound and, for me, the most important offering in these pieces.
Thank you.

[info]rebhershy

September 13 2006, 18:17:36 UTC 5 years ago

Yes, yes, I knew you would understand the aside, m'dear. But I want you to take a stab at answering the big question.

How did R. Joshua know Ben Zoma was still mad just from listening to his description of the space between the waters above and the waters below?

You know the answer. you're just afraid to put it out there.

[info]puddysma

September 15 2006, 11:16:27 UTC 5 years ago

Lying in the tent last night watching the moon rise thru the trees and thinking...

The journey into paradise is common with the myths we have enjoyed thru the ages...the journey being one inward, symbolically represented by the journey outward. The four who make the journey being aspects of the same being. Once one is face to face with paradise many old thoughts and concepts will simply die, others will change radically. How can one find this reality and not know they and the Creator are One? Is this madness? and the one who returns is whole.

Still i hesitate to say this..but Ben Zoma's perspective was that of hovering over the waters.

[info]puddysma

September 23 2006, 08:38:01 UTC 5 years ago

Uh oh...have i stepped too far(into this delicious madness)? *S*
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